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The broadcast is now starting. All attendees are in listen only mode. Well, hello everyone. This is Ken Hardison. And welcome to another Jomo webinar today. We’re going to be talking about how to find her and effectively leverage as such your attorneys scale your practice. So, uh, in our masterminds and when I do come soaps, this is always a yeah,
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no problem. And it’s becoming more and more of a problem of where to find really good associates and how to effectively leverage them, uh, where they’re happy and you’re happy and they don’t leave and take your cases. And that’s always the fear, uh, and rightfully so. I mean, as we know, uh, you cannot do not compete with the associate attorneys.
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Wow. But I’m gonna give you some ideas of things you can do Mmm. During this presentation to help let alone. So let’s get started. So here’s the deal. And this is just common sense. I mean, you can be the best lawyer in the world. There’s so many hours in a day, and I know most of you out there really would like to work 40 or less hours a week,
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but the deal is you can only do what you can do. So they’re really skill for, to get it to me. You have got, so you, her associates, I mean, it’s just the only way you can do it. Uh, so to reach that next level, whatever level you’re at, you really go to the next level, you’ve got to have associate lawyers.
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So I know this was a big deal, and this is where, this is a question that I get asked everywhere. I go. And I see the lawyers when I talk to under all, we’re not finding these associates, how do I play them? How do I manage them? So there’s two trains of thought as far as finding them. Uh,
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and this could be with any kind of practice, one train of thought, but three to five years experience so that you don’t have to do them, all them<inaudible> training of how to value cases or how to draft documents and things like that. Uh, and then, okay, so that was good. Train of thought is the one that I went with.
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Uh, there’s the harm, right? I lost one. Train them your way. Mmm. Yeah. I think if you sit up, if you, if you let a brush and use touch stone, which if you had, I would encourage all of you to do. So if you’ve got the processes and procedures in there, it’s easy to train people and it’s not for staff.
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You can get this lawyer touch stone, uh, for everything we do. I mean, even the stuff that other put together with tomorrow. Mmm yeah. Everything how I interviewed people. Oh, the, uh, so similar, just everything we’ve got. Yes. Documented memorialized in touchstone under a process or a procedure. And if you’ve got that, okay.
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I think it can be pretty easy. Train them if you don’t, they’re not going to be hard, to be honest with you. Yeah, Nope. Like I said, but the con is, I think they’ve already developed bad habits and they all, so Mmm. Tend to be harder to train because they want to do it their way. And of course the probe of get somebody by that law school is that you,
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if you do it the way I did it, I actually, you started high on heroin during the summer three interns for the summer. And I let them work in each department. So security for two, three weeks for two or three weeks, two to three weeks, a little more to underneath my best lawyer, uh, or the head of that group,
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that division, uh, for those two or three weeks, and then get some feedback. And if we don’t lay had the right core values, had the same principles, we’re good work ethic and we’re smart. Then we would probably offer him a job. And some years we offered to zero jobs and some years are not all for two, two out of the three jobs,
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but the deal was, it was a, it was good. It was a good way to do it. Mmm. And I’m not saying either way is bad. I’m assuming that’s the way I did it. Thank you. If you have somebody in litigation, then I guess you gotta go out and hire somebody with three to five years experience, and I’ve seen that work.
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We’ve got a member that’s done that. Uh, and he’s done very, very well. Oh, I went to accomplish and they were there. Oh, is managing attorney four. Yes. A law firm is just really fantastic. Mmm. So he can work in a way. Uh, but, but here’s the deal, if you do, it would be a three to five years,
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uh, talking about you need it. Okay. Yeah. Pittsburgh firms or prosecutor office, where they’ve got some experience. I think with defense firms, the one caveat is that you don’t want to get somebody that sees everything bad. I always want it people and people that, uh,<inaudible> so know you can do the interview and get that, figured that out,
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or maybe give them some cases and give you, they think the value of that case is a mess. Uh, SI, well not, but get somebody to skip something experienced in the courtroom. Here’s another thing. And I’ve seen this do not be afraid to go out of state because it’s so forward to time and really good. The lawyers that make you have to will be willing to think outside the box and go to other States.
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I’ve seen this work very well because of<inaudible>, you know, you’ve got some changes in the mall, but you’ve you evaluate on Porsche, uh, the value, the same anywhere, and you just sign trial techniques, you have different rules of civil procedure, but you still got to pick a jury and prove your elements of your case and the, and when the jury over.
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And that’s no matter what state you’re from. So I guess I do this, don’t think that you just gotta put something up local boards or state board journal, look for lawyers magazine. I would be willing to go outside. Uh, and I’ve seen, yeah, knew you put it on indeed. Uh, I mean, even if you have to hire a head Hunter,
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I mean, the deal is if you’d be able to really grow in practice or you really want the best, which you should, you don’t have to, uh, money. I mean, it’s just the way it is. I mean, you know, did you get what you paid for and you think of what you get. So here’s the thing.
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I see people do this and we preach this, know, everybody know, hire slow fire fast, but don’t a major reaction that are somebody just cause you got, feel a slot. Uh, it, it’s better to, because it’s such a extensive process to train somebody and then if it don’t work out, they leave. Mmm. Did you just want to make sure that you got the right person,
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I mean, imperative that you make sure that you test them and make sure, uh, or so I recommend Jay Anderson, whatever tests you only use. I mean, you know, real talent hiring, but, uh, this has a test to make sure that this person is not manipulative, not in a directed and what I mean by inner directed,
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we’re been talking about it for integrated. Usually are very smart people. I actually geniuses, but yeah, they tend to see the world in a different way than we do. Oh, what I mean by that is they see something and they like it. Well to basically see the solution to a problem, but they always see that one solution because they<inaudible> understand it.
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Oh. And I’ve always said there’s always more, okay. You’ve always more than one solution to a problem. And so there will be close minded and that could be a problem. Yeah. It might not be for you people working with me here, a directive and they should always test. I tried it one time. It just didn’t work. Uh,
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yes, because I liked collaborative. I liked for people looking out really, you know, get up and talk about it and come up with different pros and cons and they’ve had at least two solutions. Okay. Three or four. So I would say you put it out on indeed. It seems to be the best program out there. Okay. Get somebody to review the resumes,
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you office manager, either you can do it and then pick three to six and do telephone interviews and, um, you, and then I, well that do that of those three to six. Uh, no, if there’s only one, there’s only one. If you’ve got two or three that you like, no, uh, you have a real talent hiring test and just see how they do.
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And then I went and, and then it was that I’d bring them into your office, let them visit with your other lawyers and talk with your other associates so they can get, and you also get feedback from your other associates. Mmm. Caution you that some of the other associates about be a little bit intimidated. This is really a hot shot lawyer.
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So you gotta take that with a grain of salt and understand what two you’re here. If they don’t lock them, like really tell you the reasons, not just, I don’t have a good feeling. I would really want to know specifically what is it about that person? Yeah. I didn’t really walk. And then, uh, then after that, when you have them in your office,
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do a detailed interview, give them scenarios. Yeah. See how they would handle the situation. Employee ask him, what would you do? Staff too. Don’t you? Bye. Bye. What would you do with the, uh, you know, yes. New client was lying to you about different scenarios, tough situations and see how they would have it.
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Because like I say, this approach is going to be representing you and your firm and, uh, and your class. And you want to make sure that they’re going to handle it the way that you handle it. And I think you also, but doing this, we’ll kind of figure it out what their core values, because you’ve got to hire somebody,
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who’s got the same core values that you have in your law firm. I mean, they should be the best litigated in the world, but if they’re an asshole and they treat her clash, what crap, and they treat the staff like crabs and the arrogance and your whole big deal. Okay. Uh, is that we, we know we’re very professional.
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We level our class. We live on our staff. We’re a big team then that’s probably not going to work in your law firm. Okay. So I think it’s really important. And if you don’t know what your core values or you have them, and if you don’t, I would tell you, you need to, and we’ve got some webinars and the,
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uh, and the tool kit<inaudible> that shows you how to create it. How do you come up with these cool values? How do you memorialize what’s your mission statement is what your vision is. You need this, I’m going to digress a little bit, but you need this because you were staff this core base. Whenever they get in a situation, that’s how they’re going to make their decisions based on these core values.
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Mmm. They don’t know what your vision is, how can they help you get there? And so you’ve got this. Yeah. Clarity is very important. Have it, before you start hiring a bunch of people. Mmm. So that you make part of your hiring processes to the law school values with people that had, you’re saying principles and cool values,
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what would you in your role for, from, and I think the other deal is, okay, let’s say this, no matter if it’s a lawyer, whoever you are be clear on your expectations and find out what I mean. Yeah. If you, I mean, where do they want to be in five years, the father? Mmm. Or they’re more interested in,
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yeah. Balanced. Are they more interested in making a lot of money? And, and when you do this and get Molly’s situations and see how they handle that, they’re a lot more clear what you’re looking for and all of a sudden nuclear, well, enough, this candidate is going to be a good, and here’s a no deal. Like, I think you got a little bit of what your non negotiables are.
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Well, like I got along, I will not have a lawyer. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s negotiable. There’s park Rangers. Mmm. Yeah. Oh, just not to happen. And maybe you’ve got some pit, whatever is you do a little bit right up front. No. And maybe they’ve got some wrong negotiables. Nobody. You need to know.
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You go invest a lot of money, time and effort. The, and this lawyer seems like got experienced to do it your way. Oh. So you want to make sure we leave my P did it look good? And even if you do all this, sometimes it’s still you still going to be a hundred percent. I promise you. But no,
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the thing is, I want to make sure that they, yeah, no, it will be the nonnegotiable for me yet. I want everybody to do the same type of letters, the same forms, uh, and make sure that they can follow your processes, procedures. You don’t want them to be a little islands, you know, and do it their own way.
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Mmm. I got to follow the process and procedures because you put a lot of time and effort doing that, and you got a reason for it. And, uh, you know, if they want it change the way of doing it, then they can bring it to you. And then they’ll can talk about it. You do you want to change the way everybody does room to grow and make things more clearer?
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My things more efficient. I’m always okay with that. Well, like I said, I’ve already talked about that, but make sure they share your firm’s core values and your core values. So you go through this process and I’m not saying it’s easy, but the deal is, I think if you go through this process, you’re going to have a lot better,
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a chance of hitting a home run. Then if you just pull the ad, you know, in the local board journal and look at the resumes and then talk to them, I think you really got to get through this process. It really make sure that they’re a good fit. Did they help you? But you’re also going to be helping them cause you don’t want to put them in a bad situation.
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So a bit how to pay associates. Mmm. I really think commissioned is the way to go now. And, uh, I’ve done it two or three different ways over the years. Okay. What I’ve seen across the country is it law firms that are changing their associates to play these teams, the 20% they generate plenty of them. What percentage there’s a slight generate as far as referrals is it,
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the associates are happier to make making more money. The partner, the owners, partners are making more money. Now let me say this. You don’t get along. Oh, of course. Competition. And I’ve actually seen this happen with a law firm. I mean, this should, and it was all over me, all of the two occasions and found out about it,
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but he was only playing on 15% and the lawyer. Yeah, it are the big steak. Mmm. She was goodbye. So here’s the ideal. If you play it a bunch of it, how do you convert? Because when you tell your associates, you want to change them over. Yeah. Uh, nobody likes change and it will. It’ll steer some of them.
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Well, I’m on the wall about it. Let’s go upstairs. Mmm. But wow. Here’s the way I would suggest doing it. I’ve seen other law firms do it across the nation is you give them six months. You put them on an advanced draw. Uh, it could be what they’re making now. However you want to do it. Give six months.
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And at the end of six months pool. And if they can’t make it after that, then they probably shouldn’t have been there please, because you want to be able to, Oh, the only caveat on this, but let me say this. If you’ve got somebody that’s just doing litigation, uh, you can do work two ways against you. They’re doing nothing.
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It’s a bigger litigation cases. You had maybe negotiate the percentage. Or if they’re doing during this trial, all types of cases, then they’re not going to be able to generate as many theses. You may have to change that percentage. I’ll be honest with you. I prefer a lawyer to have a case from the beginning to do it because the clients,
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they like that better. And I don’t see how the associates really when the negotiating, without gesture. Yeah. There was no way to tell war stories or, you know, I was in the electronics case, you know, you’re good. I got this. You talk about what you think is worth. Cause I’ve actually been in there and tried them and I’ll tell you what the jury.
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Mmm. But I also think it makes them more realistic too, with their class that they can tell the client also, hi, I bet you will. I’ve tried it either 20 of these cases and I’ve never gone over 30,000 and maybe to one, but I really don’t think it’s going to happen. So I’m just like, it gives you more credibility for your associates.<inaudible> uh,
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and I think it’s, I know a lot of firms now are go into the deal where if they don’t at least try one case a year, they’re deducting. So, I mean, I know a job more than like 25, but the dealers, you want them to get an order selling, make sure. And I just sell it. Mr. Baker,
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you can also eliminate that bias. When the case is set up. At least they said it reserves of what they think the case is worth. You’re all you’re should be doing that too. Uh, your associates should be sitting up, but to begin with range, settlement range, the way we used to do it is we would do it right the first 30 days after they got in the case,
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it was it. And then it was when they get released, then you set up a value. See if you change it. And you go over that with your, when you were a mentor, which is what we’re going to talk about next, because you, you imagine a Tony or you should be coached leader. Coach would be their mentor. Mmm.
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No matter. Even if they got three, five years experience, you still want to be their mentor, their coach. So how do you do this? Well, I think the best way is to go over the case list at least once a month with status reports and what I mean by status report, uh, we used to code our cases. Well,
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there were treating and there was like Tiara for treating or for release, uh, yeah. Know, was demand out, you know, file suit was at this different. So I can see a group of by the status. And then also, so you can run a report, what must Addison have on vacation? Uh, and you can tell a lot about that.
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Well, in this case, you know, or if they’ve been released, the indication is still open for so many days. Why? And then there’s also, they don’t have issues. Then we’re going to talk about values. They got problems with the Carnivale, your case. But I understand, you know, I got this old saying people were splitting what you get to it’s like about three hours.
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That’s what I would suggest you would take to go over a case list. They shouldn’t have a rule, 120, $150 cases. Mmm. Maybe 200. If you got somebody just to really work on it, which we are<inaudible>. And then other locations you’re going to go through in this pot cost, you know, a third of them, half of them are going to be the streets.
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And there’s not really much to talk about it, but you’re going to be talking about what’s a good release in negotiations or in file suit or in mediation or whatever. And that’s the ones you’re going to talk about the most. So stress enough, this to be a monthly ritual. Uh, I talked about those reports, these open demands out cases, settled,
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and then out of standard benchmarks, like I also like to look at, I had a deal, a woman after they got released, I wanted medical records then, uh, 30 to 45 days. And then after that 45, six days only the man, wow. After 45 days, I want it. I wanted a man out. It, they got the lease and in 45,
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60 days, they either want it, the demand that’s settled. You could set your own benchmarks much it, and then live reports, sleep files versus status of discovery mediation, because we did different deals like Boulevard. Yeah. With different status, symbols were codes. And, uh, it’s just a real quick way to go rotation this with somebody and it’ll help if they know that’s where you’re going to do it,
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that’s the way they’ll manage your patients with Derby reports. There’s all these case management systems now have this. So it was really the old, so if I was just going to do just pre lit, which I don’t recommend that I think the Lord can handle it. Two staff members. It was a mixture of per unit litigation. So depending on the complexity,
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but<inaudible> litigation. Yeah. What premium personally, one paralegal. Uh, that’s what I recommend. Yeah. Disagree. That’s fine. Wherever you go. That works. And like I said, one way to stop undervalue settlements would supervise attorney before demand goes out. And so that could be part of your okay. Or he, she, or she’s got,
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and you can do that. Now. Here’s another thing I used to do. I used to do this on the floor. I’m not saying this to say, this is what I did. I did<inaudible> and we had a one hour meeting with the associates and I printed out the fees they generated last month. And then like three days before this meeting,
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they would have to U of R office manager from administration or whatever the projections for next month. And I wanted that<inaudible>, it’s kind of hard to begin with, but after a while they got 20%, either way, they might be 20% over 27, it was pretty good. And then we would take one topic, like 30 minutes, a round table.
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It might be 45, the first 15 minutes. We’ll just really, how about you? And uh, I thought it was good because yeah, competition, you know, let people know, Hey, if they can do it, I can do it. And also I wanted to be projections because I wanted to know if I still have a bad month sure.
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Right. Prepare for it. Mmm. And then it just take one thing and just kind of do it then I think. Yeah, no. Yup. It’s just more of your mentoring and coaching, you know, how you want things done and get through<inaudible> they don’t have a better way of doing that. So it’d be a Loring you can learn.
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They can learn. It’s like, it’s a great thing to do. Right. And then I did first, Tuesday, Thursday, I’ll take all my associates attorneys out two Oh, happy hour, right. Uh, the seven and Bob olders and Bob a few drinks. Okay. Right. Oh yeah. Julie, you can do that anywhere you want to.
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But I was all that was good. Bothered the people together. And if you don’t want to do that way, you could do a dinner or whatever, or you don’t even have to do anything. It, yeah. He had an associates that makes very important. So here’s the deal. And this, I saw this and I saw, I’ve seen associates legal firms before,
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because not because of money, they were making shit pops all the money, but they would, it, they were, Oh, appreciate it. Uh, what I’m saying, poncho own partner. We criticized them in front of us. Their peers and embarrassing. Yeah. Okay. I read this somewhere on the slew. Oh yeah. Uh, the girl that started Mary Kay cosmetics,
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she says, there’s two things. Uh, she was talking about employees little more than sexual money and that’s praise and recognition. And so I think you got, when they do something good, you really mean you didn’t need to make a big deal out of it for the Bureau, their peers. Mmm. And when they’re doing something bad, you know,
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taking him into shit and I’d take them in your office and sit there and they do it in a constructive way. And I, you know, and, and just ask him, I mean, ask him this question, know what would you do if you were me? Yeah. Put them reverse the situation. And I think very clearly. So I guess the big deal is you got it.
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Know. Yeah. What I’ve found is you’d be treated them really good. And I get paid really well. 98% of them will never leave you, but you don’t have two. Percent’s going to leave them at a walk because later shooting you as a stepping stone to get. Okay. Okay. And that’s okay, too. It happens. So I actually did an associate’s manual for the associates,
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kind of laid out everything. And, uh, we don’t have time today to go over. I will tell you this, this is not position. Now. It will disagree with me. I would never offer an equity partnership. Uh, I was for so lower. So we would never know I will non-equity and you need to be right up front.
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When you people in the house to tell them, we just don’t well, never will have an equity partner until we retire. And then you can sell it out to them. But you could give a lot of equity, which they just give them a percentage of the profits. There’s nothing wrong with that. All the times. Give that to them on top of,
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especially if they’re doing more than just work, your cases they’re generating. Yeah. Or like a head of a section, head of the litigation and managing attorneys. I think the short board, the commissions. But, uh, yeah, like I said, people will disagree with me on this. I feel very strongly about, so the 2% that do leave,
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if you’ve done everything right. Pick her up one, you were slow about doing it. Methodical. You put them all really good as much money as they want to make. And you treat them right. You praise them in public, you criticize it. Be proud of it. And I still leave. What do you do? I think the key is to have what I call a prebuilt.
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So she should agree it and dealing as you can, I’ll knock it. You, but there’s certain days you can put in on, they can make it silver form, a leaf. Uh, it certainly can have key components, well splitting into these, okay. What they can do about contacting clients and they can not read. They could not. Has anybody worked for recruited about your hire,
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anybody that works at your firm? Well, for three years, it goes well up there over the years is usually the relationships with the class. If they leave and go with the loop, the longest leaving over half of them are going because of it. Paralegal would have case managers going that lawyer, you fix it, where they can do that. Know.
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And you can also have an agreement with your staff saying, UPL not go to work alone, worked for for three years or two years, or however you want to do it. That will stop a lot.<inaudible> think about it. And it’s going to really save you from, uh, people, leave their stay with the forum. And I think here’s my other thing.
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I was saying the first one that leaves and they, they don’t abide the agreement or whatever. I think you have she, or if they like it, take the files in the middle of the night. I mean, I think you’ve got some examples. So associates noted, you know, you’re not going to tolerate it sitting down. You’re not going to be pushed around,
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know on her lawyer. And I did what I had to do. I had to deal with the state borrowed it. Well, the ethical issues. That’s what I do. It’s violin junction. That’s what I do. You got too much invested in this. You got not just the money invested in them, but done investing in the marketing and the processes and procedures.
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Yeah. You just cannot decide, Oh, well, no, what was me? You got to let people know that you got take it sitting down. Oh, but I will study this. If you play them well, you treat them well. And you show them appreciation, especially if, if you’re helping to do more than just you’re right, please.
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And I start to help you with the management portion of it percentage. I think there’ll be very, very happy. Very, very happy. No, we talked about that, but still a straight commission six months ago. Mmm. So can you leverage your associates slowly set expectations? I am well coach them and mentor them. You gotta be a leader on leadership and,
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uh, successful law firms have gotten, have good leaders and, or your job is to be a leader in the leader, coaches and mentors shake the boat. Usually associates, the great lawyers. Then of course I was talking about appreciation and recognition. I mean, you know, if somebody hits a home, run gets a big verdict. I take all the associates out,
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have a little little party for an hour or two that evening or the next afternoon. It makes a big deal out of it. And of course just like, would you stay up? Always preach it, give them the tools and staff to succeed. So we’re going to put this model associate’s agreement. And uh, when I used and also, uh,
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yeah, so shit’s manual, we’ll be, uh, so if you’re not a member, uh<inaudible> or four slash join, we’ve got a, he gets three months or two months. I’m not sure. And uh, you get your money back after 90 days, you’ll get access to it. How about webinars? All of my teleseminars loads and loads of,
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uh, resources and templates. And when we put these two things in there this week, I guess were over there and if you’re not a member, okay, here’s the tickets. So you go into two kids. So we’ve got different, we got marketing tools, management tools, Fest, or program.<inaudible> go to templates. And then when you go down the templates,
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you have a system, some form of contract and associate attorney bag. It’s a PDF for contracts or word docs. Uh, so that’s where you find it. And here’s the trap for 90 days.<inaudible> forced last year one. Well, like I said, everything had to send money back guarantee. Uh, so you could download and keep them, you know,
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screw me over. That’s fine because I don’t want you to be a member if you really don’t think it helps people,<inaudible> they? And they actually do something with it, uh, grow their practice expedition. I mean, it’s just the way it works. So this is just, yes. You know, go treasure club, performs and templates in there.
37:03
37:28
We got swept in the well you do that. You can use for your newsletter, postcards, social media posts. I could go on and on. Mmm. And we’ve got a monthly magazine. So any questions, Eric? Do we have any questions? No questions yet. Anybody have any questions? You can submit them to the, um, to the question tab.
37:28
38:05
If you don’t have any questions, I guess you covered it completely. Ken, no questions. That’s great. That’s the first time I must be getting used to this. Alright. So Like I said, we got these things in the, And we don’t do replays. You know, we’ll download this and the ball that the two kids too, it’ll be there for you.
38:05
38:42
If you didn’t get all, all of it, where you come in and halfway your memory, you have it there forever. So I appreciate Joseph Jonathan. And, uh, until next time, this is getting honest and dedicating your success. Goodbye. All right. Help me out. We’re not going to choose to stop this thing. I got it.
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